And he was pretty funny. He did a lot of like ah, political, topical humour about the-States and stuff so that was pretty funny.

And she's been like, all over the country- or all over- all over the-States seeing him. Like, she's been down to Virginia. She went to go see a Dave and Tim show in Virginia. Um, she went to Wisconsin to see a two night show at the gorge.

So yeah I'd love to- like I 'll stay here, and mean I don't want to live in the States by any means, so I don't want to move down there.

Interviewer: Hair. Speaker: 'Cause like I know there's a few people at my salon that actually go into the States and teach at schools for hair, and they didn't even- like they've only been at the salon for about six years.

Like, he used to live in the-States before- before he came to Canada, and his Dad owned some game store, like a Nintendo, Play-Station- ... In New-York.

Interviewer: Wow. Now are they sort-of things about going into- through international waters into another country. I mean, is it a bit tricky sometimes that way? Speaker: Well I think it can yeah. I don't know a lot about it myself but even now since nine-eleven right, going over to the States has become a problem, right, and you have to get these- it's like a boat passport basically huh?

I- when my husband was a little boy, as I say he's - he's from The-States. He's a draft-dodger, if you're ever doing a study of those I offer you him. Um, when he was a little boy, there was a co-- their family would go on car rides so the children could see the- all of the-States and this-that-and-the-other. And he was so taken aback as a little boy from- from the Midwest to go into say, Georgia or Alabama and see white drinking fountains and coloured drinking fountains, and he couldn 't- he just couldn't wrap his mind around it ...

It's really scary. Yeah to- to- for- for anybody even with a right mind to- to suggest that's a good idea is- is scary. But that's pretty typical all over the States. And I have friends that lived in Sacramento and they lived in- in this neighbourhood that was um the- the suburbs and so it was all white, or ninety-nine percent white. Um and I asked "Why do you live there?" "Well, it's safer. It's cleaner."

And then you ge-- ah it 's- my kids when they moved to the States the first time, we lived Colorado, um, they were too young to really understand. Then we moved to Europe and they went ah to private British schools, where everybody glorified in their differences. Kids came from around the world and they're going to this school.

And David-L used to live up the street (inc) he was a writer for the Star and he certainly grew up in Toronto, uh so there's a number of people who 've come here from the-States live here, academics. You-know I think, it was quite an onrush of sh-- academics from the-States in the sixties, because- I mentioned before that big expansion that took place, I mean- and the small numbers of people who were in Canadian graduate schools (...) uh meant that they had to recruit outside of Canada, uh for the staffing.

Speaker: he said "To hell with this country" (big intake of breath)- Interviewer: uh-oh Speaker: and went to the States Interviewer: went to the States Speaker: and he did well. He had his own business in the States. Interviewer: and he s-- continued to- Speaker: He could do much better in the States- Interviewer: support your mother? Speaker: Oh he- I- always sent his pension-cheque that he got for fighting in the war, to my mother.

Five-dollars-a- week. That's all he gave me. That's all she gave me really. It was okay. I didn't mind that. I have a sister Mary who lived in the States and she had four or five kids, and- and that was okay but I got homesick for Toronto. I- my American cousins always had a lot more. There's no question they had a lot more.

Anyhow, eventually two of her- my mother's sisters married Americans and my brother was out in the States, my sister went to the States, and ah got all kinds of relatives in the States. Florida, California, Illinois, Michigan, but um a-- at some point-in-time, my grandfather and my grandmother went to Detroit to live with their eldest daughter and my grandmother died. I never knew her.

But he lived with us. But the grandmother, she's buried in the States. My father's father, I never knew. And ah, there's another aspect to that family.

Well, you used to have to have tokens and pay, like, pay like, little- little wee small little tokens. Like it wouldn-- maybe ten cents or something. Wasn't expensive. Not the way you pay- pay for in The-States you-know.

But it's amazing how quickly people do panic and how that- how that changes things really quickly sort-of the head- the mind-space. People you-know, the kind of talk that was going on in The-States. I have friends in The-States and they were just like- their vision of what was going on up here from the media was amazing. You-know it was like they thought we were all hiding in our houses with- you-know in some sort of suits.

Um, so yeah we did a lot of travelling and to The-States a little bit. Now more with my husband. He goes to see music in The-States and um, things that he can't see here, and I 've been to Europe quite a few times and-

Um, so Bob I think we 've been to- I mean he's been- and he was a Dead-Head before that you-know when- in high-school so he's been everywhere in The- States. Um, the bluegrass festival's in New-York state, we 've been down to Kentucky and Tennessee, around there to see Bob. Um, been to Oregon- when I was in Vancouver I went down there to- just to Seattle yeah.

There's so much better music festivals- so many better music festivals in the States than here. Although there's a bluegrass festival in Guelph that we're thinking this year we 'll go.

Oh yeah they're like anthemic here. I mean I have friends who 've seen them a long time ago so I don't know what they would be like now, in Buffalo and you-know, in the States in tiny little bars and you-know, people love them and they pack the bars but it's not even like, the size of the Horseshoe, you- know? So it's like crazy to see them here.