So people didn't see it as a direct threat to Christianity or the prevailing religion, but um I think that- No, it was controversy, like people lost their jobs I know that. There was- there were theosophics in the States that lost their jobs for being that

I 've seen Americans doing it to Canadians, and it's just like- the Canadians just the same goes down. It's like, "I'm going to crush you in any way I can secretly." No I remember this prof came from the States and I applied to work with him and ah I sat down and the first thing he said was "Are Canadians stupid or what?"

Or I don't know what-the-hell he thinks he's being. Like who says that? Yeah. I can't imagine doing that in the States to somebody. Well they would kill you for one thing. So what are your plans?

Like from here like go visit my cousins in Jersey like go around all of Canada like visit every single place there can be that I like know of like Ottawa Montreal and I'd go to the States like go to Florida for a couple weeks and all that. I'd like try and visit as much as I can.

Speaker 2: Americans do run things man. The fucking States fucking runs, the world. And it's fucked up how they do it. Speaker: How they run the world? Speaker 2: They run the world. Speaker: Actually yeah they do. (laughing) You can-- you can't argue that. The States do run the world. Speaker 2: Fucked-up. The world is a really cracked-out place.

Speaker: ... and the difference is funny, my sister who lives in a smaller town in the States they do look at you funny if you speak a different language Interviewer: really Speaker: yeah they do, they look at my niece like "What is she babbling about?" 'Cause she's learning Ukrainian

Speaker: They ah got in to the networks and from there- well, not that many- Speaker 2: not computer network Speaker: (inc) Interviewer: Really? Speaker: stayed with us Interviewer: oh wow, that's great... and so there was that network then between Canada and the States Speaker 2: mm-mm Interviewer: Really?

Speaker: ... like appointed by God who set the laws for all of us? Why can't we have a vote on some of these laws, like abortion, the whole country vote on it right? Interviewer: Well the country does vote on it, we're democratic. Speaker: But the supreme-court decides it. Like in the- States too, Roe versus Wade, that was by those nine judges, like who the hell are they?

Let people vote. Like they say, in The-United-States, if they had a voting ah, like everybody could vote on the issue of abortion they say about fifty percent of The-States would be pro-life and fifty percent would be pro-choice. But to hear it in the media ...

Speaker: Canada is so politically-correct, our media just totally dominates. Interviewer: Religious- I-mean there are a lot more religious fundamentalists than there are here. Speaker: And in The-States there are foundations that can get the word out for their point of view, which you don't see in Canada, you-know- what-I-mean? Here it's just like, totally politically correct. Like I have no respect for our media here or, like the C-B-C ...

Interviewer: Oh, newspapers are totally Speaker: But of course they never get back to you, 'cause they know it's true. Interviewer: They usually follow a political agenda. Speaker: yeah, and you-know it kills me though, like, you see this in The-States too, when you see a reporter or an anchorman talking to the camera saying, "Well I've got a secret duty to the American people here. I 've got to inform them about the issues, what's going on." It's like, "Give-me-a-break! You're so sanctimonious ...

Speaker: One of the things that floored me most was they made every flight all around the world land. Like there were no passengers flying anywhere in the world. They were all ordered to land. Interviewer: Did they really? Speaker: Yeah. They were ordered down everywhere. Interviewer: Not just The-States? Speaker: No. Everywhere. It wasn't just The-States, it was everywhere. All flights around the world were grounded. And then remember there was that flight that was still missing that eventually crashed in Pennsylvania and they were wondering whether it was going to come down.

And so, I, ah, I was still looking around for something that was a bit more in print, and then my- one of my professors sent me this list-serve that had a posting about this publication called 'Health-Scout' that was starting-up in the States, and they needed writers and it was, like, a medical website kinda thing.

Interviewer: Where was the Cat? Speaker: On Bar-Harbor. It was from- in the States. Speaker 2: Maine. Speaker: Yeah, in Maine.

Interviewer: They must not see a lot of Asian people there anyways there, the tourist most be mostly like Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I think just a lot of people from Texas or people from the States or some Canadians, but Interviewer: That's what's nice about Cuba, is it's not all-

Speaker: My girlfriend is a nurse. Yeah. Interviewer: Really? So is it like weird with the SARS stuff? Speaker: Well the thing is, she got her license for the States, she doesn't have her license for Canada.

Interviewer: Oh really? That's so interesting. And was it in the States or in Canada? Speaker: Here in Toronto. Interviewer: Oh yeah? Really, I didn't know that. Huh.

It was very different than the Americans. Yeah, we had our protests, but they were more generally sit-ins and love-ins and things-like-that instead of carrying placards and being rambunctious and things, you-know and nobody got shot up here like they did down in the States, 'cause you-know we weren't like that. We had our own little brand of social activism.

Speaker: We spend a lot of time in Heidelburg. Interviewer: Is that a big city? Speaker: No, well, it's sort-of a mid- size, um for Germany, it's a university town so um there were a lot of intellectuals, and people that were, people that had come from Canada and the-States as well um to study at the University-of-Heidelburg. So there were great philosophical discussions down by the river and you-know, that-sort-of-thing and it's a very medieval town as well, so it was kind-of cool.

It's very very ultra-extreme and anyway, (...) so children with learning disabilities, yeah, there was a culture going on there, there was a psychologist, and a psychiatrist that had been to various ah institutions in the States ... um observing ah what they were doing with children with learning disabilities, how they were teaching them, how to tie shoelaces, and um how to perceive foreground and background ...