Interviewer: And uh, did you ever do any traveling with your family, outside of- in Canada? Speaker: Um, not too much no, we were uh, uh pretty close to home, the uh,uh- I did uh, more traveling later on went down through the States and out to Vancouver, uh twice or three times, and we went to England several- you-know England, Ireland, Scotland, the-British-Isles, several times, excuse me, I'm going to take a drink.

Interviewer: And when you went down through the States you said- which- where did you go? Speaker: We went- we went through the States, right down through uh, uh, where the Western, you- know the- all the mountains and the hills and all that, and went down to the Southern States and back up, we- we left- we left here-

... a lot of people don't like Americans, but we do and they- they actually- they- you 've got to admit that they keep Canada from being taken over by some foreign country. ... See because the foreign countries are afraid to come in here because the- they know the States will you- know? yeah. right. Come to our aid.

So we got a name. We called it T-N-T, Toronto-Negro-Trumpeters and within- within a month-and-a-half, we were playing parades and drilling and went on tour to the States, Saratoga-Springs, and Utica, and Buffalo and won all kinds of awards and yeah, that's how we started.

Speaker: He got murdered by his girl. And then they brought back Freddy-Hubbard. Interviewer: Murdered here? Speaker: No, in the States. She shot him in a club.

Interviewer: I think all-in-all New-York, for the exception of some nice cities they have throughout it, there's a lot of scuzzy places in- Speaker: In the States as a whole but yeah New-York for sure, absolutely, I mean we are so lucky. People don't get it though. I don't think.

And he was pretty funny. He did a lot of like ah, political, topical humour about the-States and stuff so that was pretty funny.

And she's been like, all over the country- or all over- all over the-States seeing him. Like, she's been down to Virginia. She went to go see a Dave and Tim show in Virginia. Um, she went to Wisconsin to see a two night show at the gorge.

So yeah I'd love to- like I 'll stay here, and mean I don't want to live in the States by any means, so I don't want to move down there.

Interviewer: Hair. Speaker: 'Cause like I know there's a few people at my salon that actually go into the States and teach at schools for hair, and they didn't even- like they've only been at the salon for about six years.

Like, he used to live in the-States before- before he came to Canada, and his Dad owned some game store, like a Nintendo, Play-Station- ... In New-York.

Interviewer: Wow. Now are they sort-of things about going into- through international waters into another country. I mean, is it a bit tricky sometimes that way? Speaker: Well I think it can yeah. I don't know a lot about it myself but even now since nine-eleven right, going over to the States has become a problem, right, and you have to get these- it's like a boat passport basically huh?

I- when my husband was a little boy, as I say he's - he's from The-States. He's a draft-dodger, if you're ever doing a study of those I offer you him. Um, when he was a little boy, there was a co-- their family would go on car rides so the children could see the- all of the-States and this-that-and-the-other. And he was so taken aback as a little boy from- from the Midwest to go into say, Georgia or Alabama and see white drinking fountains and coloured drinking fountains, and he couldn 't- he just couldn't wrap his mind around it ...

It's really scary. Yeah to- to- for- for anybody even with a right mind to- to suggest that's a good idea is- is scary. But that's pretty typical all over the States. And I have friends that lived in Sacramento and they lived in- in this neighbourhood that was um the- the suburbs and so it was all white, or ninety-nine percent white. Um and I asked "Why do you live there?" "Well, it's safer. It's cleaner."

And then you ge-- ah it 's- my kids when they moved to the States the first time, we lived Colorado, um, they were too young to really understand. Then we moved to Europe and they went ah to private British schools, where everybody glorified in their differences. Kids came from around the world and they're going to this school.

And David-L used to live up the street (inc) he was a writer for the Star and he certainly grew up in Toronto, uh so there's a number of people who 've come here from the-States live here, academics. You-know I think, it was quite an onrush of sh-- academics from the-States in the sixties, because- I mentioned before that big expansion that took place, I mean- and the small numbers of people who were in Canadian graduate schools (...) uh meant that they had to recruit outside of Canada, uh for the staffing.

Speaker: he said "To hell with this country" (big intake of breath)- Interviewer: uh-oh Speaker: and went to the States Interviewer: went to the States Speaker: and he did well. He had his own business in the States. Interviewer: and he s-- continued to- Speaker: He could do much better in the States- Interviewer: support your mother? Speaker: Oh he- I- always sent his pension-cheque that he got for fighting in the war, to my mother.

Five-dollars-a- week. That's all he gave me. That's all she gave me really. It was okay. I didn't mind that. I have a sister Mary who lived in the States and she had four or five kids, and- and that was okay but I got homesick for Toronto. I- my American cousins always had a lot more. There's no question they had a lot more.

Anyhow, eventually two of her- my mother's sisters married Americans and my brother was out in the States, my sister went to the States, and ah got all kinds of relatives in the States. Florida, California, Illinois, Michigan, but um a-- at some point-in-time, my grandfather and my grandmother went to Detroit to live with their eldest daughter and my grandmother died. I never knew her.

But he lived with us. But the grandmother, she's buried in the States. My father's father, I never knew. And ah, there's another aspect to that family.